Aha! Moments with Social Stories

The process of writing a Social Story can reveal unexpected insights as we gather information about the perspective of the person we're writing a Social Story for. 

In this first episode of The Social Stories Podcast, Carol, Siobhan, and Aaron share "Aha!" Moments with Social Stories. We discuss times when this process of discovery broadened our understanding of the experience of a person in our care. 

From learning a new meaning of true friendship to surfacing the important job of underpants, discover how to abandon assumptions and be enlightened by new perspectives that come with being a Social Story Author!

Some context to share: The Team references Social Humility, the foundational philosophy of Social Stories. Social Humility is a decided stance—an adopted mindset that prepares Authors for writing safe, meaningful, and effective Stories. Among its tenets are recognizing that there are equally valid but sometimes different perspectives, and to embrace curiosity as confusion with a good attitude. We'll be discussing Social Humility more in future episodes.

Referenced in the episode: 

• Uniquely Human Podcast: Autism & Building Trust, Barry Prizant & Dave Finch
• The 8th Habit by Stephen R. Covey 

Connect with Team Social Stories! 

• Carol: https://carolgraysocialstories.com
• Siobhan: https://siobhantimmins.uk
• Aaron: https://www.aaronlanou.com

Transcript

Aaron 0:00

It requires us to in some way at least climb into the mind of a young person to like try to understand what they're understanding, how they're understanding it differently than we might be, so we create that bridge. So we're sort of seeing things in the in a similar way.

Carol 0:17

You're listening to the Social Stories podcast with Team Social Stories. We're Carol Gray, Dr. Siobhan Timmins, and Aaron Lanou. In each episode, we explore authentic Social Stories, the philosophy, and the defining criteria, addressing frequently asked questions with case examples and lively discussion. Thank you for joining us as we learn together with respect, curiosity, and social humility at the heart of every conversation. Welcome to the Team's Social Stories podcast. I'm Carol Gray, joined by my colleagues, Dr. Siobhan Timmins and Aaron Lanou. And today we're discussing memorable moments with Social Stories, times when the process revealed an unexpected insight and ultimately broadened our understanding of the experience of a person in our care. Erin, you've had some situations where suddenly you went, aha. And uh it led to an interesting solution or a Social Story.

Aaron 1:31

Yeah, absolutely. It was one of my earliest aha moments with Social Stories, in fact. Um I was a classroom teacher and I was teaching first grade, and I had a class of uh, it was an inclusion class with a mix of uh autistic students and and um students without IEPs. And um we uh started having this issue with one of the students um who would when we would line up for lunch or to go to art, um, and and the rule had always been, and we've been going pretty well up to that point, that when you line up, you just get into your spot wherever you are, and then we formed a line from there. We didn't have assigned spots or anything like that. One of my students, Chuck, he would start to kind of nudge his way into a very specific spot in line instead of going to the end of the line. And you know, you at first you just try, oh, remember our rule, like you know, you just get into whatever spot. And that didn't seem to take very well, and he still just wanted to get into this one spot. And what happens often, and what what I think the undoing of this is what leads to the aha, but I had these assumptions about what it must have been. Oh, he just wants to get to lunch early so he gets better chicken nuggets or whatever, or like he wants to be first, like that must be the issue. Um and so these are the things you just jump to, or I jumped to as a teacher, and I think we all do to some extent. We sort of think we have the answer, we think we know what's going on, and we act accordingly. So, you know, I would I say, like, doesn't matter if you're first or not, or you'll all get chicken nuggets, or uh, you know, you get a turn on the playground, whatever it is. And it had no effect at all. Like, it didn't seem to just watching him when I would share this information, like you'll get there eventually, there's plenty of chicken nuggets. It's like it didn't even register. It did, it was like almost like I was speaking a different language. He did not seem to care about what I was sharing with him. And I even thought I was doing a great job by writing a Social Story. So I wrote a Social Story about again, another sort of pitfall we have to learn from and then have our real aha. But it was about like how we're supposed to line up, you know? It was basically that trap of rules written nicely. Like so in a in a line, we just get into the back, and so I'm gonna get in the back of the line and I'll get there eventually. No impact. Again, it was just he didn't seem to like care, frankly, is sort of my my read of it. And um unfortunately, you know, like when he really wanted to get into spot line, he would sort of elbow his way in, and so it was causing larger problems than just like he really should line up in the back. Other people were getting upset, and no one got hurt, but it was just it wasn't ideal. And so one of the days when I sort of had to just eventually pull him out of the line and be like, Chuck, remember, you just gotta get on the end, and there's plenty of chicken nuggets, or whatever I was trying to explain to him, he got really, really upset, like sad upset, and said, But I need to be next to Tony because Tony is my true friend. And I was like, Yeah, but you know, sure, you can sit with Tony at lunch or whatever it might be, but and he'll still be your true true friend. And he just said, I need to be next to him, or he's no longer my true friend. And he was sort of despondent at this moment, and that hearing him and really taking in what he was saying and recognizing how shaken he was by this notion that if he wasn't next to this person, he was no longer this person's true friend, was the biggest, one of the biggest earliest aha moments I had in really all my teaching to really knock me upside the head and be like, oh wow, there is a like kids, other people can have perspectives that are so different than what I think and assume, and they're so meaningful and so important to them, and unless I understand that, I'm gonna get nowhere and I'm gonna be missing the mark, and I'm not gonna do right by this young person. And so we ended up writing a new Social Story, but this new Social Story was about broadly, it was about like friendship and proximity. That like um true friendship involves this and this and this. Um, and it's possible to be someone's true friend when you're sitting next to them, it's possible to be someone's true friend when you're across the hall, and it's even possible to see still be someone's true friend when you live in another state. Um and it took some time, and it was, it was, it was um a process, but the two things, two ways I knew this uh we were on to something there. One, instead of just like dismissing me out of hand, like who is this guy? I'm just gonna keep getting back into my my line, or reading that first Social Story where he was like, What is this garbage? He really read that story and and read it intently. And though it was hard for him to, I think, make that shift over time, you could tell it carried some meaning to him. Uh huh. And I also think um it it sort of did the trick because he he was better able to get in a different spot in line. And that it's not, I say that with sort of a little like hesitation, caution, because again, right, like this is not about, well, he did the thing I wanted him to do, so it was like success, job done. But he was able to do something that actually worked better for him and worked better for the class and worked better for his friend, um, like sort of calmly and at ease eventually, in a way. And so he was able to sort of make a shift, but that shift was based on his, I hope, um, sort of new understanding of friendship and not sort of like compliance with a rule.

Carol 7:06

You know, Aaron, uh, listening to uh your experience, it started with an issue. And then there it is. Uh and I think that's um true with a lot of situations. We do make assumptions, and that assumption really gets in the way of um a solution or a topic that really uh hits the nail on the head because we do think we know what to do. We went to college, we went to university, they gave us a certificate. It says on that certificate to us that we are now ready to teach and to have little lives in our care. And our it's a default assumption, and to this day, I have to push it out of the way. I don't think my new default assumption is not to make one.

Aaron 8:24

Yeah. It's all it's hard too because, in addition to that degree we have, it to me it feels like a human thing. Like we don't like to be wrong, we don't like to not know, we don't like uncertainty. And so, regardless of our qualification or our position or our role, it it just feels better in our body most of the time to be like, I'm pretty sure I'm right. Well, like that just feels comfortable to most people, and to and to like step into that murky, uncertain world of like, I think I'm missing something, I might have gotten it wrong, I'm not sure what's going on here. Doesn't feel great, but it's kind of necessary for what we're talking about here.

Carol 9:02

Yeah, uh curiosity is confusion with a good attitude, right? And I can't tell you how many meetings I've been in where there's an issue and staff gather around a table and you can almost set your clock by it. 45 minutes in, somebody's gonna hit the table. For some reason they hit the table. Okay, what are we going to do? But they haven't discovered what to do. So now you enter into invention and well, let's do this, okay, and we'll all do this, and because we're all doing it consistently, it will be successful. Uh we can mislead ourselves so quickly.

Siobhan 9:54

I think when when you talk about um as teachers, you feel when you've got you've got that um degree and that that that training makes you feel like you should be able to manage this situation. So it kind of pushes you towards a managed solution, doesn't it? And it's not not much different for a parent as well. Parents, teachers, all professionals, we're all there in a way to guide the people in our care. And guide is the word that we want to kind of avoid. We want to explore, not guide, explore different perspectives rather than decide on a route. Right. So it's the same from the parent point of view that we're we're we're inbuilt with this these assumptions and this this need to help and to put into place something that would be predictable according to how we're thinking. Uh yeah, it takes quite a lot to put that aside and think clearly. Yeah.

Carol 11:01

Yeah, we we default to what would work for us. Yeah. Um uh Stephen R. Covey in The Eighth Habit, that his book, The Eighth Habit, is all about helping others find their voice. And I think that's so important. Uh providing information and uh supporting others as they determine their own solution.

Siobhan 11:34

That's true. And I think there is um a unique moment when you're working trying to discover um um a student or a child in your cares perspective when they look at you with a sort of, oh yes, you know, that might be it. That moment.

Carol 11:56

Yeah.

Siobhan 11:57

And that there is a human connection where you're not saying you're wrong, but you're offering them some information, or you're discovering that they have different information to you, and you're um, you know, trying to help them with it, um, where they recognize that and there's a a a good connection. Um and that moment, it's an aha moment when they look up and say, Oh I don't know if it's an aha or an oh, but it's it's certainly a response. Um and I can uh uh probably the first well the the most memorable Social Story, um, and one that really kind of embedded in me um an real enthusiasm to continue in the in the technique was a little boy um called Mason, who was four years old, was toilet trained, and his family were having huge problems. That whenever he had a few drops of we on his underpants, all his clothes had to come off wherever they were. And the mum was having to carry this huge bag of clothes and shoes, um, top-to-toe, change of clothing wherever they went. Um, because while he was little tiny little guy, you could put him behind a door and get him changed, she said, but she couldn't see that this was something that that could go on. Um, but they had done everything. They were at their end of their tether. Um they had explored the possibility that it was a sensation having something slightly damp on his underwear, but that didn't appear to be the case. Um and they really wanted wanted a solution. And I sat down um with Mason and um asked him, what's the reason all the clothes and the underpants come off? Um I drew a little picture um so he could see what I was talking about. And he looked at me and he said in this really gravelly voice, quite unlike his own, underpants and clothes must be dry. And I thought, oh okay. Um that's interesting, you know. That's a way of thinking about it. And um I thought, well, there's something there that's that that might need exploration, and I just explained to him very gently or described to him Did you know, Mason, that underpants have a job, and their job is to soak up little drops of whey, and that's why they're made out of that special cloth that dries out really quickly. And he looked at me as though that's new. That's new information. I didn't know that. Um so I and that uh that was one of those moments where you think, I think I may have a topic there. Um I thought I'd better do a little bit more research and um asked his teacher. Um I well I described to his teacher what what he'd said to me, and I said, um how he'd said it to me. And she said, I know that voice. I know who made that voice. She said, It's the nursery assistant in such and such a class. Um she's a lovely lady, go and have a chat. And when I went and had a chat with her, she remembered little Mason very well. Mason has sat next to another little girl who's also um had quite severe difficulties and also had a very difficult background and was coming to school drenched um in urine from her chest down to her knees. And the staff in the special school would undress her and put her cl clean her clothes, and she would be taken to the class bathroom by the hand, and the the assistant would say to her, because she'd be a little bit reluctant, um, oh underpants and clothes must be dry. Underpants and clothes must be dry. And she said it as I was talking to her, her voice was really gravelly. Now I thought that's where it's come from, and I don't know why it held so much authority. Um but I just wrote a very simple story on what's the job of my underpants. And for this little boy um read this story, it stopped straight away. And it was it's very unusual, you know, quite unusual to get an instant result. But you really know you've hit the nail on the head then, and the family's response was leave the bag at home. It's wonderful from that day on. So that was that was one of those things where I looked at this this little chap afterwards and and said to myself, Well, you know, for autistic children, if someone stops and and discovers what their thinking on it is, they will discover a solution, whether it be a physical solution or a a story solution that can really change not just their life, but the family's life too. So it's a huge it's a huge thing and it blew me away. Absolutely blew me away. So that that's probably one of my most memorable uh um events with Social Stories and why I stuck at it and always tried to think what information is this person operating on? What what are they thinking here? Maybe they can tell me, and if they can't tell me, maybe I can observe and find out. But they're not operating um to be d on to be difficult or anything. That they're they're operating on a set of information that may be different and just needs expanding um in order to understand the situation. But yeah, it's so cool, isn't it? It's such a wonderful technique. I'm completely smitten with it, always have been.

Carol 17:57

And Siobhan, what impresses me about uh your story is that you were not only sensitive to what he said, but how he said it.

Siobhan 18:12

Yeah.

Carol 18:12

With that gravelly voice, which then that was important enough to you to mention to his teacher, which then tied to uh the link to the nature or the source, understanding the source where information has come from, and how fascinating that uh he gave you a clue in how he said it, uh to basically the source of his understanding of that situation. Um the details that are important to him.

Aaron 18:56

I also appreciate from your story, especially in contrast to mine, that rather than leaving with the assumption and thinking you've got it right, like your starting point was basically, oh, we've got something to figure out here. And so we've we've got to ask some questions and ask some questions if you if you're able to, um, you know, from get the information from the source. And I think, again, I'm thinking of this through a teacher lens, and I don't want to overgeneralize, I'll just talk about my own experience. But I feel like teachers often ask questions we don't want the answer to as a way to reaffirm a rule. Like, why would you push in line? We don't actually want someone to answer that question. It's a different way of saying, I've taught you this and you know this and you shouldn't be doing it. Yes. But if we were to actually change our tone and the context in which we asked that question, not that I would phrase it in that exact way, but if I if I in a calm, okay moment spoke with my student and say, why won't you push in line? Like and actually wanted a real response, I might have actually gotten the information I needed. But instead, we I you know, we I just sort of insisted that you know I reiterate a rule. But so what you did, Siobhan, is you you started with that stance of like, I've got to ask a question that might help me get more information that I am missing to understand the situation and this perspective better.

Carol 20:17

Right. And in both of uh your stories, uh you were able to verbally interact with uh the person uh and you were able to get information that you needed verbally. I one of the situations that stands out for me was working with a not yet verbal uh preschooler, about four years old. And as I entered uh the classroom to consult, hi, I'm here. How are things going, etc. And often teachers start with, you know, I've tried everything. I don't know, and there's an assumption for you uh because I've learned over and over and over again, no, you've tried everything that we currently know. Um but and that's the starting point um where sometimes we waste a lot of time. But she she indicated that uh this little guy uh loved books, uh loved to listen to books on cassettes, uh and also without the cassettes, uh would look at books uh on his own. Was very interested, she felt, in going up into the reading loft. And the children in the class would routinely, during free time, uh go up to the reading loft. They'd climb up one by one, and it was an absolutely vertical ladder. It was not a slant. It was absolutely vertical, start to finish. And so kids would go, they'd come back out, uh, etc. And she said, so he seems interested. He'll go up the first two rungs, but he abandons it and will quickly uh return to the floor. So what we decided to do was one of the strategies they had was to bring some of the books down from the loft for him to look at on the floor in another location. But that didn't seem to do it. He kept looking over to the loft, and she said, I really think he wants to go up there, and I don't understand why he doesn't. He can make it up the first two rungs, uh, etc. They had tried pulling him aside and looking at books with him one-on-one, and he did not like that at all. He wanted to explore the books on his own. So I guess I was the first adult that decided to climb into the reading loft and see what the problem was. And you go up and you can see that ladder the whole way up. And you get up into the reading loft, and there's all these books and other kids, and it's a good, quiet, wonderful place to look at books. I can see why it was attractive. But as I went to exit the reading loft, I thought, oh, that first rung is not visible to you as you get out. It is almost, it seems like it's below where you need it to be, or that it's simply not there. You do you can see the sides of the top of the ladder, but you could not see that first step. And so I thought, so what do you do? And you basically rely on your foot to see that first rung, to stop on that first rung, and you definitely don't let go of the two side rails until it does. And then it's pretty simple after that. But that first reach is kind of scary. You have to know that the ladder is still there, and that was for him the key piece of information was that ladder is always there, it's there all night long, it's there in the morning. Nobody ever moves that ladder away. Uh, and you have to reach with one foot to find that first run. That's what kids do. And uh we recorded that story on a cassette. Uh, he read it independently with a little ding to indicate time to turn the page. Now we could do it, of course, electronically and do all kinds of wonderful things. But that was the 1990s. It was a cassette. And he read the book uh story one time, looked over at the loft, walked over to the loft, went directly up, uh, looked at books, which surprised me a bit because I thought he would right away come back down, you know, test it out. But no, it was like he knew the whole routine and he was uh happy, smiling. And yeah, uh, his teacher hadn't tried everything. And if she had decided that she had, um he would have missed uh a very important part of his preschool experience, plus socially being up there with all the other kids. So uh that was my aha moment, and sometimes putting yourself in that situation, and what do I know about this person? Whether it's a little person or an adolescent, uh, what do I know? How might this look feel to them?

Aaron 26:25

Yeah. So something that strikes me about like our three examples, and we didn't plan it this way, but there are like three different ways to explore the perspective of someone else. Like, like one is uh you're naming uh like needing to actually see the perspective, like look through the eyes of right, the the young person that that you're that you're supporting um in the physical space. And Siobhan's was about like sharing information about right, the job of underpants is like something you don't think about on your daily life, daily in your day-to-day life, but that that is like technical information we have about the world that we just need to like look at differently and it and find a way to communicate. And and mine was more a sort of misalignment of like, I guess I hold certain beliefs and assumptions about friendship, and this young person holds different beliefs and assumptions about friendship, and and and we've got to like find, we've got to share with each other about where we're at, you know, um, so that we both understand each other's perspectives about friendship. And so each one of those requires us to sort of you know do our research and like figure out something. What are what are what is the thing we're missing, whether it's a like a view of something, like a physical view of something, information about the world, or like an attempt to understand someone else's take on something, but all requires us to like like maybe physically climb into the mind of a young person, but like in some way at least climb into the mind of a young person to like try to understand what they're understanding, how they're understanding it differently than we might be. So we we create that that bridge. So we're we're we're sort of seeing things in the in a similar way, right?

Carol 28:18

You know, definitely uh sometimes we're uh placed in a situation where we can't write a story, uh a student responds, and you're like, Well, what am I going to do? Uh and you have to do something. And sometimes the best response is to just go with uh the accurate information that you do have. I remember I was working with a small group, uh, these were sixth graders, about 12 years old. And one of them suddenly in the middle of the activity, which I thought was going rather well, he disappeared under the table. His hands went straight up over his head, and I I had lost Harold. He's he's gone, he's under the table. And as I went under the table to chat with him, I realized I have no idea what to say. Um, and if you say the wrong thing, well, from my experience, uh it can actually aggravate the situation further and raise the anxiety of the person in your care. And so all I could accurately say at that moment was if I had to guess, and I I can only guess, Harold, because I don't know what you think and how you feel, but if I had to guess, I would guess you're feeling a little bit under the table. And he leaned forward and his eyes were real big. Uh what described when you connect, and he said, Yes. And well, then you can logically say, why do you feel under the table? And boom, there's the information that you wanted. Um the real key to communication is to abandon how you typically approach something in favor of what makes the most sense. What's what's the most logical way to uh approach this? And I think sometimes that's the key.

Siobhan 30:47

I love the way you use the the introduction I'm guessing because I don't know. Because that's a real invitation for them to contribute, isn't it? Their own experience. Um when a teacher says you must be feeling worried, is that what you're feeling? Right. That's completely different, isn't it? But I'm guessing and I don't know means you can correct me. You know, it gives him that openness to say something different. Yeah, it's very good.

Aaron 31:20

And it's I think all this speaks to like another, I keep bringing this back to like this is just humanness in a way, a lot of what we're talking about, but sort of like it shines a spotlight on some of the ways that it might be uh different and even sort of more important to do what we're talking about when there's a non-autistic person and autistic person who are trying to, you know, connect in some way. You know, if you're having a discussion, let's say a heated discussion with someone you care about, maybe someone you've lived with and are partnered with for a long time, there's things you can say that that you feel in the moment are like, well, I'm in the right, and so I could say this. And if you were if you were to be able to like pause on your life and see it from above, you'd probably be like, you know what? You could very well say that. And maybe that's even right. But guess how this is gonna go if you do say that. And instead you could say something that that is going to get to a better place, that is more likely to get you collectively to a better place because you care about this person. That's probably the better thing to say. So I think what we're discovering here is like, yeah, you could reassert the rules. You need to sit in your chair. Or like, you know, whatever. You you are technically right that he needs to sit in his chair. You're technically right he needs to keep his underpants on. I'm technically right you can't push in line. Okay. But if that's all we do, even though we're right, we we know what's gonna happen. We know what the outcome is gonna be. It's just either gonna be a battle or it's just gonna remain unresolved. So instead, we sort of have to do that like pause, zoom way out, and be like, okay, yeah, I could just say the same thing I've said over and over again. I'm pretty sure I'm onto something here. That is just not gonna be a path forward. So instead, maybe I can say the more the thing that has the more um likelihood to be impactful to actually like get us somewhere um that's a little different than my default mode. Because ultimately, what are we trying to do? We're trying to get somewhere together. We're not I'm not trying to just assert that I'm in the right. We're we're trying to move, we're trying to have some movement, some progress here. Um, and so it does sort of take that taking a step back. It requires taking that step back to be like, what's actually gonna be impactful? How do I, in my sort of analogy that I'm sharing, what is actually gonna help us resolve this conflict, you know, not be not go to bed angry, you know, like whatever, get to some sort of resolution that feels better for both of us, versus, well, I'm in the right here, so I'm just gonna say the thing that I know is true. And and we really do have to challenge ourselves to say the more effective, impactful, useful thing rather than the thing that we just feel right about.

Siobhan 33:59

And that's for all people, isn't it? Really, for everybody. Yeah. Sure.

Carol 34:06

Aaron, as I'm listening to you, I can I could feel the moments that you've been in frustrating communication with someone, and we've all been there where you have this feeling that you're not being your most competent self. Uh and and one of the most humbling statements I I developed, uh, but I had to remind myself that I don't know everything before using it, but was wow, okay, do I need more information or do you need more information? And it would the word information would uh help to dissolve some of the frustration. And I was blown away by times when, well, I was told I needed more information. Um there were plenty of those. But there were also, I was really blown away when kids would say, Well, I need more information about. And I was like, I'll be darned. Um and there was an aha in that, that uh the best person to assess somebody's experience is that person.

Siobhan 35:44

And if you find yourself in that sort of circular argument where you are actually getting nowhere, um as as in social humility, and that one of the elements of social humility is not to never argue perception, but just go looking for that alternate perception. Um it's it's difficult to do, isn't it? You have to put your it's your own way of thinking aside, you know.

Carol 36:13

It's difficult and then ultimately a heck of a lot more fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aaron 36:21

And satisfying.

Carol 36:24

Yes, yeah. Right. Yeah. Because you're a step closer to relationships with the people in your care that really work.

Siobhan 36:35

Yeah. Uh and the trust. Yeah. The trust is built very between you and that person. That you will listen to me, you will try and help me, um, is very different to you're gonna tell me. Yeah, yeah. I think trust is a is a very, very big issue for um that that sort of frontier between the autistic and non-autistic people. Uh there has been such a fraught lack of trust um uh uh due to people taking their own perspectives and not not considering an alternate perspective, really. And once it's broken, actually, I think it's quite hard takes quite a while to build back. So it's worth it's worth finding that trust and cherishing it really. Um but yeah.

Aaron 37:27

I was just re-listening to a podcast from uh Barry Prisant, your buddy, I think, Carol, and and David Finch, the Uniquely Human podcast. And um there was just a great moment where clearly they'd had this discussion before, the two of them, Barry and David, but I think Barry said, and what is the opposite of anxiety? David said, trust. I thought that was how powerful. Yeah, yeah.

Siobhan 37:52

Yeah. Yeah. Because if you trust somebody, you'll go to an uncomfortable place with them, won't you? In order to find out an answer.

Aaron 38:02

Yeah.

Siobhan 38:02

Um, on both sides. Yeah.

Aaron 38:04

Yeah. Wow. Where does anxiety come from, if not uncertainty? If I'm okay, if I am safe, if I'm gonna be all right, and if you are in the presence of a trust, a person that is trusted. You've got a trust relationship with someone, you just have this sense of security, safety, belief, knowledge that you're gonna be okay.

Carol 38:25

The little guy on the ladder, he trusted the Social Story. Yeah. I yeah, I never spoke with him. Uh, I never read the story to him. It was him and a little book and a three-ring notebook and a cassette player, and uh words can create trust. Uh they can also threaten it.

Siobhan 38:58

Yeah. So I guess the author's responsibility um to always maintain that trust, isn't it? Not to let a Social Story be about something that is in any way wrong. Um because the student or the child or adult will look for that kind of information in the Social Story as being accurate and true and reliable and trustworthy, it's a big responsibility to make sure we get it right, really, isn't it? Yeah.

Aaron 39:30

It's why why they're so hard to write, but why as Carol said, they're more fun, as we're talking about here, they're more impactful, effective, satisfying, but we gotta get it right.

Carol 39:42

Yeah. It has been so much fun talking to the two of you uh today. Uh it's always it always gets me thinking. I'll be thinking about this, especially as I fall asleep. I'll be thinking of the things you said that made me laugh, uh, and how much I recognize my experience in yours.

Aaron 40:08

Better things to be thinking about as you fall asleep than the alternative these days. So that's true. That's true. Glad to have that.

Siobhan 40:15

Yeah.

Aaron 40:19

That does it for our Social Story inspired aha moments. Thanks for listening to the Social Stories podcast. If you're writing Social Stories and something in this episode resonated with you, we'd love to hear about it. From Team Social Stories, Carol, Siobhan, and Aaron. Until next time.